Keyforge

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hatch
Erzmagier
Beiträge: 187
Registriert: Mo 27. Mär 2017, 11:55
Wohnort: Berlin

Re: Keyforge

Beitrag von hatch » So 5. Aug 2018, 21:27

Richard Garfield hat im BGG-Forum etwas zum Thema Kartenverteilung geschrieben:
Deck Construction Algorithm & Balance
I can't go into details, but the construction algorithm does reject decks and do small amounts of construction. In balancing the goals of variety against playability (both too powerful and too weak) we tried to cut as few decks as possible, but we did cut some. More often than too powerful or too weak was 'not fun', it is not fun to get a card that refers to Robots and then have no robots in your deck - or even just have one.

There absolutely will be a range of powers with the decks, it would be arrogant to think we could identify algorithmically true power of a deck - and it would undermine one of the things I love most about games - that they are bigger than the designer - the players get better than the designers, and later players get better than earlier players. This means 'balance' is always a moving target.

A couple examples to illustrate that - in very early magic there was a powerful deck engine based on a card Necropotence - and lots of call that it get banned. We chose not to and the world championship was very exciting because some players brought out a secret weapon - the Stasis Deck - which disrupted the status quo. We as designers did not know there was a solution, but we knew that games are very very complex, and we didn't want to deprive the players the ultimate achievement of solving that problem.

A second illustration comes from an electronic game I worked on, Spectromancer. In that there were classes you bought and one free class - cleric. There were many complaints that cleric was the worst class - which we were pretty sure wasn't true, but the natural result of it being free. We chose that character to be free not because it was weak but because it was flexible and showed the variety the game offered. We did an analysis and found that indeed for beginners Cleric was slightly underpowered, for Intermediate it was quite underpowered and for expert it was actually a favored deck. In retrospect this was predictable - flexibility is almost always skill testing, and allows players to make bad decisions as well as good. Similarly a deck coveted by beginners - the Necromancer - was powerful against beginners and intermediates but underpowered against experienced players. Experts knew how to avoid the traps the Necromancer laid.

There is no one balance - intermediates and beginners are all players as well, and experts today become outdated tomorrow.

Instead of the goal to make decks fair, I took the goal as making as many decks as possible playable and fun against each other - meaning that of the three major factors in a matchup - player skill, deck quality, and variance - deck quality rarely dominates (meaning regardless of skill or luck your chances to win against it are minimal). And most matchups it will be a long time before the favored deck is known and the advantage should be small.

As players get better at evaluating the deck powers there are many tools for making games fair - the handicapping system of chains is one, but switching decks and for very experienced players - bidding chains are others.

Personally - my son and I (he is a very good player) like to take underperforming decks and try to beat each other with it. It is sometimes tough but we find a lot of glory to taking down a more powerful deck, and sometimes the techniques used can change the relative performance. If we wanted to play 'fair' we would bid - or choose two decks that are close in performance, which we do sometimes as well.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/203685 ... hm-balance

Hallixx
Krieger
Beiträge: 36
Registriert: Di 28. Apr 2015, 22:39

Re: Keyforge

Beitrag von Hallixx » Mi 8. Aug 2018, 22:36

Release auf deutsch in Essen oder noch gar nicht angedacht - habe dazu noch nichts gefunden ? :)

ghorron
Krieger
Beiträge: 26
Registriert: Mo 29. Aug 2016, 13:52

Re: Keyforge

Beitrag von ghorron » Do 9. Aug 2018, 12:29

Laut asmodee.de wird es zumindest eine deutsche Version geben

http://asmodee.de/keyforge-reihe/keyforge

Ein Release-Termin wird allerdings nicht genannt.

Gorger
Erzmagier
Beiträge: 307
Registriert: Mo 16. Jun 2014, 08:08

Re: Keyforge

Beitrag von Gorger » Do 9. Aug 2018, 13:20

Ich hoffe sehr dass das Spiel in Essen erhältlich
sein wird. Ob deutsch oder englisch wäre mir egal. Soweit ich weiss soll es im November kommen. Demnach wäre Essen nicht allzu unwahrscheinlich.

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Tomas
Bürger
Beiträge: 1
Registriert: Do 9. Aug 2018, 15:51

Re: Keyforge

Beitrag von Tomas » Fr 10. Aug 2018, 14:20

Сooles Spiel, es wäre cool wenn es in mehreren Sprachen lokalisiert wäre, da wären schon mehr Spieler und in Zukunft könnte ein direkter Konkurrent sein Hearstone )) :ugeek:

nierensieb
Erzmagier
Beiträge: 418
Registriert: Mi 26. Jan 2011, 22:17

Re: Keyforge

Beitrag von nierensieb » Fr 10. Aug 2018, 14:51

Holy shit, an das Thema anderssprachige Versionen hatte ich ja noch gar nicht gedacht!
Wenn das Alleinstellungsmerkmal des Spiels ist, dass jedes Deck einzigartig ist, dann gibt es Decks ja nur in bestimmten Sprachen. Mind = Blown :geek:

Ist das dann eigentlich eine Übersetzung? Spricht man dann von Lokalisierung? Was ist hier der richtige Begriff?
Ganz ehrlich, seit der Ankündigung von dem Konzept bin ich überzeugt davon, dass die Idee zum Scheitern verurteilt, aber irgendwie schon arschcool ist. Kann auch nicht aufhören, drüber nachzudenken.

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skipey
Magier
Beiträge: 61
Registriert: So 21. Apr 2013, 10:01
Wohnort: Gelsenkirchen

Re: Keyforge

Beitrag von skipey » Sa 11. Aug 2018, 18:32

Gorger hat geschrieben:
Do 9. Aug 2018, 13:20
Ich hoffe sehr dass das Spiel in Essen erhältlich
sein wird. Ob deutsch oder englisch wäre mir egal. Soweit ich weiss soll es im November kommen. Demnach wäre Essen nicht allzu unwahrscheinlich.

Da Essen dieses Jahr erst am letzten Oktoberwochenende ist, ist es für die Messe doch garnicht so unwahrscheinlich.

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